Convoluted copyright question

[nhfirefighter13]

A nationally published book (by a BIG publishing company) just hit the shelves and there are 2 of my photos in it. Yeah, it's a surprise to me too. Here's the thing: the photos are about the motorcycle shop I work at and were taken during work hours by me.

Now, since this is a non-photographic specific position I have here I obviously don't have any sort of copyright/licensing agreement with my boss.

There is no photo credit for the two photos anywhere in the book.

I realize that if I were working for a newspaper or the AP, Sports Illustrated, etc that I wouldn't have a leg to stand on as far as copyright/royalties are concerned but I'm not too sure about my current situation.

I would have been perfectly happy with a simple "photo by:" caption somewhere but since there is NOTHING, I'm a little peeved.

Any thoughts? Should I pursue this more or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Steve Mitchell]

Were you asked by your employer to take the photos for the company?

[nhfirefighter13]

The simple answer would be, yes.

The long, drawn out answer would be "Hey, would you take some pictures for me?" as opposed to "Take some pictures for me."

[Steve Mitchell]

It would have been considerate of them to give you a photo credit assuming other photos are credited. Not positive about the legalities either, though as you said, since you have a non photographic position, he/she most likely assumed it was just another duty requested of you.

[Puncher]

I'd guess that in theory they should at least have credited you. Getting money for this would be a whole different issue.

[Joey Foley]

I'd be mad!
You boss would of had to know.
I'd being at least asking for your name on the photos.
That's not right.

People do that kind of crap to me all the time.
But not anymore, and especially by a big company.

[skagitswimmer]

I suppose that you never expressely reserved copyright when you handed over the completed photos or said anything to limit their use. On a practical basis it is obviously too late to add the photo credit, so no point asking for it now. And on a diplomatic, practical level it isn't worth your job to sue employer for breach of copyright. You might ask for contribution to a new lens in exchange for having done the photography with your own gear, and offer in exchange to do some more fancy bike shots.

[nhfirefighter13]

1. It is far too late to ask for a photo credit since the book is already in publication.
2. I hadn't really intended on going after my employer...I was thinking more about the publisher. I would have thought that they would need some sort of info about where the photo came from before they went ahead and used it.
3. The photos are nothing spectacular. In fact, they're downright bad. But, hey, they're in what I'm sure will be a very high print run book.
4. I'm just really bummed out, I guess. I mean, I can't even claim this on a resume or anything because I have no proof.
5. Lesson learned. :(

[skagitswimmer]

1. - that was my point
2. - depends on whether your employer gave the publisher the photos and his permission to use them.
3 &4 I don't see why you can't claim them on a resume, though if they aren't great photos you might not want to.
5 - fair enough. You could still notify the publisher that they were used without your permission and ask them for payment. The worst that can happen is that they would say no.

[swartzphotography]

hmm. actually i think ownership of copyright would depend on several things number one did you use your camera. number two were you being compensated money wise. for the time you spent taking the pictures. basicly if you aggreed to take the photos for your empoyer it could be said you were compensated for the work. by your hourly pay however. that does not give him the license to use your work for publication without your release. just like when you take portraits for a client they pay you for the pictures you take however you still retain the rights to the pictures. before 1976 the supreme court said that photographers were actully considered employes of the people they took pictures of. but in 1976 they overrulled that decision because they stated if you were truley employed there should also be employee records w-4 forms and taxfiles held by the person getting there pics taken. after that the supreme court decided that copyright is retained by the photographer unless the photographer waives his right to the photos via a copyright release. if i was you i would contact a lawyer you can find someone who is more versed than me in copyright law. the reason is although i know you would be happy with a simple credit. but it sounds like this pic is benefiting your employer via advertising through the book. and there fore you are entitled to compensation. i hope this helps and let me know what you decide

[nhfirefighter13]

You're pretty much at the point I was yesterday, Mark. It's a grey area of who owns what that only a court of law would be able to decide on.

I'm not going that route. I've come to the conclusion that the situation is my fault for not not making sure everything was clear before I took the shots. You snooze you lose, I guess. I'm not going to go after my boss because I figure it was more along the lines of a favor to him and he didn't mean to maliciously take my shots and not credit me.

Like I said, lesson learned.

[Puncher]

I think you still should talk to your employer and/or the publisher about credit. Maybe there will be a second print run or second edition or something and then they can correct that at least.

[swartzphotography]

i think you should do what ever you feel is right but always remember copyright laws are there to protect your work. and although your employer was not malicious in his intent. most of the people that go to wal-mart where i work and try to get those pictures of there wedding or whatever copied are not intending on being malicious. but they and your employer need to be made aware of the copyright laws for the future so they dont think they can use your orriginal work without your permission

[steffit]

I don't know your boss, of course, but is there a chance he/she isn't aware of copyright issues? I know this sounds silly - but a lot of everyday people I meet have neither any understanding at all of photo copyrights nor do they even think about this issue when it comes to sharing your photos...

Likewise, for a lot of people it seems hard to understand how important a credit line is for a photographer. If this is the case, telling your boss your point of view might help avoid future problems.

Another idea would be to contact the publisher saying hey you published two of my photos, but I can do much, much better. You could offer a collaboration or the like.

Anyway, just my 2c worth for when the bad surprise has worn off.
Stefanie

[Steve Mitchell]

I think the bottom line is whether or not you think it's worthwile enough to approach your boss.

[nhfirefighter13]

I think the bottom line is whether or not you think it's worthwile enough to approach your boss.

I know him well enough to know this wouldn't go over very well...and I kind of need my job at the moment.

I'm pretty much resigned to chalking this up to experience and I can assure you it won't happen again.

Thanks for the opinions, guys (and girls). :)