Critique Requests

[Datter]

Hello everyone,

I have posted several photos a couple of times to the Critique Requests gallery and have only received one comment. I noticed that most of the other requests have few or no comments as well. While it may well be that everyone is following the "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" protocol, I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on how to actually obtain some constructive criticism. Would it be better to just post them as an attachment to a new thread-- or is that considered "cheesy."

I haven't exactly inundated the site with requests, so I don't think oversaturation (pardon the pun) is the problem.

Thanks in advance.

[steffit]

Hi Datter, it seems to work better to select several (or one) photo(s) and ask for critiques in the forums ('member critiques' for example). You might want to state again that you're looking for constructive critique and want to improve - it is sometimes hard to figure out how much critique people really want to get!

Also, when I critique, it helps me enormously to understand what you wanted to achieve, including any corollary info on the pics; and if you have sepcific questions, e.g. is this sharp enough? does the composition work? etc

Oh, and don't worry about inundating the site!

Hope that helps,
Stefanie

[MatsP]

About every 12-18 months, someone figures that "We ought to improve the critiquing in the CR photos" - and sometimes it improves for a few weeks or so, but in essence it's two things:
1. People are naturally lazy - viewing photos and writing constructive criticisms is extra work... Particularly if you're trying to tell someone (nicely) that the photo is rubbish... ;-)
2. If you don't know much about the subject or the style of photography, you may end up not commenting, because you don't actually know anything about it.

I also find that I write some constructive criticism, but I never hear anything back from the original poster - they may have read it, but I don't know if they did or not, or if they appreciated the help...

--
Mats

[Augphoto]

I for one know my photos are rubbish. As hard as it may be I truley want constructive critiques. I figure it's one of the best ways to move away from the 'rubbish' category, into something more appealing. I chose this site because the quality of the posts were so great. No sense learning from peers when you can learn from those above you. I really respect the talent which is shown here and simply want little nudges to get me on the right track in this newfound hobby.

[Joey Foley]

I'll say it again just in case some people don't know me, "I want constructive critiques."
I truly appreciate ANY comments I get on my photos. I really need to find time to comment on more people photos.

I want any thoughts you maybe thinking. No matter how bad!
I like honestly, to me personally be brutally honest.
No hard feeling at all.

That's my 2-cents.

[agesilaus]

Well I subscribed to the rss feed for the photos and was overwhelmed with shots. And there would be 20 shots from one person. Some self control would probably draw more views, I unsubscribed after a few days.

[Datter]

Joey brings up a good point. It wouldn't hurt for some of those that post critique requests to actually give some constructive criticism to other posts. Of course, some of us don't necessarily feel qualified to give such criticism just yet. Although I think we can all offer some insight from time to time.

Thanks everyone for your observations.

[gparr]

Datter,
I commented on each of your images and tried to be as constructive as possible. As Mats mentioned, this issue comes up every few months and it's usually someone such as you who gets frustrated because you're not getting the critiques that you need to improve your images. And they're not rubbish and I'm confident that Mats had no intention of suggesting so. I, for one, try to comment as much as possible. Many others also make every effort to comment. I don't pay attention to whether the image is in any particular forum. I just comment as I have time and when I feel I can offer help and/or encouragement. But, as Mats said, it does take time to craft constructive and helpful responses and I don't always have time.

Stefanie also makes a good point. If you have a shot with which you specifically want help, put it in a thread, describe what it is, how you shot it, and what settings you used. Then ask specific questions, i.e., Does the composition work? What will improve this shot? How can I improve the lighting? People are often more willing to help if you give them something with which to work. Hope all of this helps.

dphoto is an excellent place to get help and there are many people here who are willing. Sometimes you just have to squawk a little and you also have to understand that we all do as much as we can given our personal time constraints.
Gary

[MatsP]

And they're not rubbish and I'm confident that Mats had no intention of suggesting so.

No, I was just making the point that it's MUCH easier to say "That's really great" than to in a nice way say "You should have used a different shutter speed, different aperture, a different lighting and maybe the subject should have been choose a bit differently" [i.e. the shot is not good in much of any aspect] - and I mean CONSTRUCTIVELY telling the poster what is wrong, and how to make it better - just writing "I don't like it" will not actually help much, right?

Stefanie also makes a good point. If you have a shot with which you specifically want help, put it in a thread, describe what it is, how you shot it, and what settings you used. Then ask specific questions, i.e., Does the composition work? What will improve this shot? How can I improve the lighting? People are often more willing to help if you give them something with which to work. Hope all of this helps.

Yes, definitely - a forum post will get more attention in the first place. And, if you ask specific questions, the readers/viewers of that post will think about those specifics when viewing, and give good comments. If I see a photo that maybe has somewhat poor lighting, and comment on that, but what you really wanted to know was if the composition worked (you already knew that the lighting wasn't good, and had planned to go back another day when the sun is in a different position to get the light right)...

dphoto is an excellent place to get help and there are many people here who are willing. Sometimes you just have to squawk a little and you also have to understand that we all do as much as we can given our personal time constraints.
Gary

I enjoy taking part in the discussion here, and as you probably know I've posted quite a few forum posts, and every now and again, I'll comment on photos [good, bad and ugly], but every post takes some time - and sometimes I have lots of it, other times not. Criticism of photos is also a matter of understanding what can/can't be done with a particular subject - which is why I'm more inclined to comment on for example a motorcycle racing shot than some portrait, say.

--
Mats

[steffit]

Good points all around. I would just like to add one more - addressed specifically at the newbies and people in general that feel they don't know enough/shoot good enough photos to comment:

Go ahead and comment anyway!!! And lots of comments, too! It's going to be very useful for your own photo skills to look, really look at other peoples' photos and pin down what you like or don't like. Verbalizing this will fix it in your mind and you will make better decisions because of it.

Knowledge of the subject may be helpful, but is not necessary, so don't use this as an excuse! You have the advantage of being an independent 'observer': you weren't there at the time of the shoot to know how difficult the conditions were or how this was the first time the little girl smiled - if the shot doesn't work for you on some level, then it won't work for lots of other people either.

Stefanie

[MatsP]

Go ahead and comment anyway!!! And lots of comments, too! It's going to be very useful for your own photo skills to look, really look at other peoples' photos and pin down what you like or don't like. Verbalizing this will fix it in your mind and you will make better decisions because of it.

Good point!

Knowledge of the subject may be helpful, but is not necessary, so don't use this as an excuse! You have the advantage of being an independent 'observer': you weren't there at the time of the shoot to know how difficult the conditions were or how this was the first time the little girl smiled - if the shot doesn't work for you on some level, then it won't work for lots of other people either.

Stefanie


I agree - my point was more to the effect that if I know something about the subject - "been there, done that", I would be more likely to post a comment, than if I don't. I agree it's not a reason to avoid saying "What is this shot trying to say" [which by the way is not particularly constructive, it's better to say "You may give a better message if...", but it can be hard if you don't ACTUALLY know what the "message" is supposed to be - maybe there isn't one ;-)] or "How about cropping it a bit tighter" or some such... But if I was to advice someone on portraiture, it would have to be pretty basic for me to add any advice, whilst if someone has taken a shot of a motorbike going around a race-track, I can identify many more, detailed, pieces that can be corrected (or that is done well!).

--
Mats

[Kevin Sadler]

this is a great post for all of us. like stef says, critiquing WILL make you a better photographer, whether you're just starting out or a seasoned pro. and there isn't a better place than dphoto to get your feet wet cuz everyone is looking for constructive criticism rather than pats on the back.

so where a beginner might start with "i think the background should be more blurry" and evolve into "use a longer lens, get closer, and try a larger aperture", it's all good!

[Unregistered]

Here's honestly why I don't usually post more comments:
a. I either don't know hardly anything about that specific area of photography(example,flowers)
b. I don't want to make anybody mad
c. I've been to busy
d.my grammar sucks

That's my excuses.

[Joey Foley]

Oops,that last post was by me.

[Kevin Sadler]

i hear what you're saying joey but i have to be honest that's a little disappointing to hear that coming from you. we've all watched your photography really blossom over the past couple of months. of course your hard work and motivation get a lion's share of the credit, but a few folks here have helped you out too.

so maybe you can pop in a few critiques for the newer guys to help them out. i'm sure they won't get mad at all. :) don't worry about your grammar or the subject.

and i hope you don't get mad at me. :) j/k keep up the good work. later, kevin

i just thought of something. even if you only make positive critiques (which is understandable) at least say why you like it specifically. we can learn from that too.

[Joey Foley]

i hear what you're saying joey but i have to be honest that's a little disappointing to hear that coming from you. we've all watched your photography really blossom over the past couple of months. of course your hard work and motivation get a lion's share of the credit, but a few folks here have helped you out too.

so maybe you can pop in a few critiques for the newer guys to help them out. i'm sure they won't get mad at all. :) don't worry about your grammar or the subject.

and i hope you don't get mad at me. :) j/k keep up the good work. later, kevin

i just thought of something. even if you only make positive critiques (which is understandable) at least say why you like it specifically. we can learn from that too.

Yea, I've been wanting/trying to post more comments on people photos lately.
Before I even read this I was thinking I need to post comments on more people's photos.

So look for more of my bad grammar coming soon;)

[Kevin Sadler]

thanks, joey. you've got a lot to offer so do what you can when you've got a spare moment. kevin

[NikNikon]

Kevin is right, keeping tabs on what positive comments you have opposed to shots without comments you still can get an idea on what other people like. I do that quite a bit if I upload a group of shots, I check to see which ones get positive feedback if any as opposed to pics with no feedback so I know what works and what needs work.

P.S. I think I could have said that better but work was rough today and I'm too tired to fret over it.

[Bruce Painter]

Personally I have a lot of the same reservations as have already been mentioned.
#1 is that I feel uneasy trying to critique photos from the quality of photographers as we have on this site. When it is a great photo but I see something that I think could be different (not necessarily better) then I feel I'm being nit-pickey.
I sometimes do not comment because I see something that would be the type of thing I myself find easy to overlook when I'm the one making the photograph knowing that someone could see the same fault in a photo in my gallery.
Last but certainly not least I have trouble putting my thoughts into written words. I do OK verbally but for some reason not in writting.

I might add that although I seldom ask for critiques when I post my photos they are always welcome. Good, Bad, or indifferent.

Bruce

[FredG]

Lots of valid points in this thread. It got me questioning why I post a lot of verbage, but don't post many images, and don't post many critiques. In fact, I spend about 90% of my time reading and only 10% looking. What I found was that my own focus is on equipment and processing. Things like composition, lighting, posing are things that I do to different degrees, but they aren't on the center of my radar screen. That led to the realization that I've stunted my own growth by not studying / experimenting / participating more on those topics. Like others, I may not request nor offer critique because I feel inadequate in many areas (for good reason). So my own personal summary is that posting critiques will take a paradigm shift and an adjustment of my radar screen. But it will benefit me to do exactly that. The revised paradigm would go something like this:
1) In the areas where I do feel slightly competent, I can offer technical comments.
2) In other areas, I can at least offer how an image makes me feel, and why it does so.
3) In all cases, I can benefit from reading the critiques of others.
4) The Dphoto culture is one of the best I've seen, so I know I won't get beat up if I say something wrong, or different from the majority.
5) I should give more critiques than I request.
6) I've never been offended by negative comments I've received. They have only helped. So don't be afraid to give negative feedback, as all feedback is good. Just do it in a nice way. (sidebar parallel: comedians don't say funny things, they say things funny. Negatives can be offered in a helpful way.)
7) If I truly believe I will benefit, then I will find the time to do it.

Well, the first step in making a change is to identify the need. I've pointed a finger at myself and done that. Others need to make their own self assessments.

[Augphoto]

Wow, good points all around. I can't quote everyone.

As, most may know I am very, new at this. I don't usually fence sit but, I can see both sides of the issue. I know it takes a person's valueable time to post (always greatly appreciated). And I can see a person saying - 'why would I critique him, he's not done any critiqing himself and if he won't take the time then why should I'. Conversely (and it's always been my biggest fear), I can envision one feeling - "who is he to say such things. My work is head and shoulders above his so what gives him the right to say that? He's obviosly new at this and doesn't know what he's talking about. I know much more about this than him, what nerve."

With that being said, perhaps some of your posts have convinced me to get my feet wet. In the coming days I will try putting in my meager two-cents-worth and see how everyone responds.

[FredG]

"who is he to say such things. My work is head and shoulders above his so what gives him the right to say that? He's obviosly new at this and doesn't know what he's talking about. I know much more about this than him, what nerve."Sounds like the response one would get at "that other site". The Dphoto culture would more likely generate a reply of "I see your point, but have you considered ..." Yes, please do jump in.

[Datter]

Thanks everyone for the input. If nothing else, it generated some constructive criticism of my recent uploads. Thanks, Gary, et al.

Stef, I must admit that I am sometimes reluctant to provide more of a description of the context of a given photo because the ideal that I would like to ultimately achieve is for my photos to stand on their own merits. Although, if a photo is especially flawed I could see where it would be very helpful to someone analyzing the photo to know what the original intention might be. I will try to keep this in mind in the future. Of course this would require that I actually know what my original intention was.

Mats, your point is well taken regarding the lack of response from the original critique request poster. I have especially noted this from the photos posted to the photo.net website. There may be a lot of critiques of a photo, but not that many responses from the person who posted the photograph. To me that often appears as if the one posting the photo was just saying "look at my wonderful photo." I do appreciate the time that others take to respond to a critique request, whether the photo merits that effort or not. I also endeavor to respond to those who take the time to give constructive criticism.

Joey, I'm with you, if someone thinks a photo of mine is crap, that's fine just tell me. But also tell me why you think it's crap-- "I don't know what the point of interest is supposed to be in this photo," or "the cropping is wrong, the depth of field is wrong, the principle plain of focus is wrong," etc.

Kevin, as usual you bring a positive influence to all of your posts.

The reason why I chose this website to post my first photos is that I have followed enough of the threads that all of you "regulars" have contributed to that I have learned to appreciate and respect your individual personalities and the sensitivity that you all use when offering advice to the newbies.

Thanks so much everyone for your contributions.

Dwight